Celestino Pérez, Jr.: I serve as the Chair of Executive and Strategic Leadership at the U.S. Army War College at Carlisle Barracks, PA. I also direct the Carlisle Scholars Program, for which I design and teach a seminar of select national-security professionals in political science, strategy, war, and military ethics. Finally, I serve as an adjunct professor at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs. My research interests include political judgment, strategy, military ethics, and the relationship between the American military and democracy. I’m especially interested in “bridging the gap” between the illuminating work that political scientists do and the real-world challenges that political and military actors confront.
I hold a BS in American Politics from West Point (1992) and an MA (2002) and PhD (2008) in political science (political theory) from Indiana University at Bloomington. I am a Distinguished Graduate of the U.S. Army War College with a Master in Strategic Studies. My scholarly work appears in Perspectives on Politics, Peace Review, Armed Forces & Society, and the Journal of Military Ethics. My public and professional essays have appeared in Joint Forces Quarterly, Military Review, War on the Rocks, and Strategy Bridge. I also published an edited volume entitled Addressing the Fog of Cog: Perspectives on the Center of Gravity in U.S. Military Doctrine with Combat Studies Institute Press (2012).
On October 31st, 2021, I retired as a colonel after 30 years of service in the U.S. Army.
Episode Transcript: Hispanic Heritage Month – Celestino Perez
Stephanie Crider (Host)
(Prerecorded Hispanic Heritage Month intro) The US Army War College celebrates Hispanic Heritage Month from September 15th to October 15th. This year, to observe the occasion, the US Army War College Press recorded a series of interviews showcasing war college leadership, faculty, staff, and students. Listen in to hear their insights, anecdotes, and more.
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the podcast guests and are not necessarily those of the Department of the Army, the US Army War College, or any other agency of the US government.
This episode’s guest is Dr. Celestino Perez. He serves as the chair of executive and strategic leadership at the US Army War College and directs the Carlisle Scholars Program. He also serves as an adjunct professor at Columbia University School of International and Public Affairs. Perez holds a (bachelor of science or) BS in American politics from (United States Military Academy) West Point and an (master of the arts or) MA and PhD in political science from Indiana University at Bloomington (Indiana University Bloomington). He’s a distinguished graduate of the US Army War College with a master(’s) in strategic studies. His scholarly work appears in Perspectives on Politics, Peace Review, Armed Forces & Society, and the Journal of Military Ethics. His public and professional essays have appeared in Joint Forces Quarterly, Military Review, War on the Rocks, and Strategy Bridge.
Thank you for being a part of the war college Hispanic Heritage Month podcast series. I’m glad you’re here.
(Celestino Perez)
Uh, thank you for the opportunity, Stephanie.
(Host)
Absolutely. Let’s just jump right in. I would love to know: How does your heritage impact your work?
(Perez)
That’s a great question. I should begin by stating my family . . . my parents came from Mexico, and they came at different times and from different locations. But they settled, eventually, in the United States. My dad came when he was 11 or 12 years old. When he graduated high school, he enlisted in the United States Army. And he spent two years stateside, and he spent 1966 in Vietnam for his tour of duty. While in the military, he was naturalized, so his progression early on gave an example for me of service to the country, of the opportunities that the United States has. And then, he made military service an option for me. So I’ve always been open to the migrant experience.
(Host)
Got it. Well, let’s fast forward a little bit and talk about you. What is your biggest professional accomplishment to date?
(Perez)
Wow. I speak as someone who retired about a year ago after 30 years of service in the military, but I’ve also considered myself an educator. I’ve taught in several places: (United States Military Academy) West Point, in the Department of Social Sciences; I taught at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, where I created a program called the Local Dynamics of War; and then, here, I’m the director of a program called the Carlisle Scholars Program.
I think my biggest accomplishment, then, has been to create an educational experience that I aim for it to be world-class, and it has two elements. One of them is it combines or integrates academic research into strategy formulation and military planning, and the other one is a belief that the best way to educate and train national security professionals is by having them practice what they’re going to be doing when they leave, which is formulating strategy. So they actually work on real problems, whether historical or contemporary, and then the more times they do it, the better at strategy formulation they get.
(Host)
That makes sense. So would you be willing to share with us a pivotal moment in your life that changed your trajectory and changed things for the better for you?
(Perez)
I’m going to expand on the answer I just gave about being a teacher, and it was a pivotal event. It was a crystallizing event. It was a confirmation of what I set out to do as an educator. So, at Leavenworth, where I created the Local Dynamics of War program, I was able to handpick students, just like here. And one of them was a student, Wendy Dedmond, who had come as a child from El Salvador, fleeing political violence with her mother. She was one of the students, and she had written about this experience for a thesis. And I got to superintend that thesis, and it was a wonderful experience. But, during the months of the course, during an exercise, she had come up, and she had two or three readings in front of her. And she said, very somberly, “Why didn’t we read this before we deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan?” And, as a teacher, that felt really good seeing that the curriculum that I had assembled was insightful to these professionals who had been in harm’s way overseas. But as a military professional, I was concerned. Why is it that we had not consulted this literature as an institution prior to deploying troops to these places? I reflect a lot on this experience even today.
(Host)
Right. That sounds really impactful. What are you working on now that you’re excited about?
(Perez)
So I have two projects that I’m working on. One of them is on civil-military relations, which isn’t my normal field. But I’m trying to explore how it is that the military professional and national security professionals think about politics and partisanship and this idea of pluralism. The philosopher John Rawls talked about the fact of pluralism. And it is a fact that people have fundamentally different, deep-down commitments about politics, about economics, about religiosity, about secularity, about what it is to live a good life, what is a good society, and that we need to embrace this fact. Otherwise, we resent it, we think it’s an annoyance. And I think this disposition, one way or the other, affects how it is that we treat people in our organization serving in the military. How do we deal with civilians, whether in Department of State or secretary of defense when we’re doing our work at high levels? And how it is that we treat those people who live and work and play in places where military professionals deploy. How do we treat them—noncombatants, especially?
So that’s one project. The other one is a project on what I call “the positional problem” in civil wars—which is an extension of a piece on ethics I wrote—which is this idea that in Iraq and Afghanistan, tactical leaders were making decisions about whom to designate as an enemy and whom to designate as an ally. And this fact, which is problematic, hasn’t really been explored too often in our recollections or lessons learned about what did we learn from Afghanistan or Iraq. And so I’m trying to bring this to the fore and cause military professionals and national security professionals to reflect upon it.
(Host)
Right. Tell me where our listeners can learn more about you or read your work.
(Perez)
I have a website, celestinoperez.com, and that’s where I post the links to my writings, whether professional or military or scholarly. I’ve also had a YouTube channel. Many of those episodes are available through that website. And then, Twitter: @perezcelestino, no dot—you can follow me there as well.
(Host)
Wonderful. Do you have any final thoughts?
(Perez)
No. Thank you very much for doing this. Reflecting upon our heritage, our background is really inspirational. This is my 30-year reunion this weekend coming up at (United States Military Academy) West Point. And I think about Armando Rodriguez, who ended up being an infantry officer, and I admired his dedication to . . . being a cadet, trying to be an infantry officer; Wendy Dedmond, who I mentioned—she started a PhD after getting out of the military this fall at the University of Oklahoma; Blanca Reyes, a lieutenant colonel at (US) Army North who was a professor of military science of the year (Military Science Professor of the Year) all (US) Army (Reserve Officers’ Training Corps or) ROTC programs a few years ago. You interviewed Pancho Perez. So, all these people serve as inspirations to me, and it’s good that we take time to reflect upon that we’re not just persons filling roles. We have these deep backgrounds that affect how we do our work.
(Host)
This was a real treat. Thank you so much.
(Perez)
No, thank you very much.
The US Army War College celebrates National Hispanic Heritage Month from September 15th to October 15th. This year, to observe the occasion, the US Army War College Press recorded a series of interviews showcasing War College leadership, faculty, staff, and students. Listen in to hear their insights, anecdotes, and more. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the podcast guests and are not necessarily those of the Department of the Army, US Army War College, or any other agency of the US Government.